His or hers, she or he – it doesn’t matter what pronoun you use to address someone, just as long as you respect and accept each other. Today, Patrick Riley is here to help us understand the value of acceptance and being accepted. He is an independent personality, producer, and writer, and has an ongoing project called The Happy Hour Talk Show. He is currently in the spring/summer promotion of his book That’s What Friends Are For: On The Women Who Inspired Me. While Patrick brings in some insights from his book, he talks about his friendship with his idol Diana Ross and how the star has somehow helped shape his career and life. He also shares great wisdom about the LGBTQIA+ and the African-American community and where pop culture stands.

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Erin Gets Down with the Pronoun with Pop Culture Expert Patrick Riley

With us is Patrick Riley. Patrick is the guy, the legend the man and he’s also who I would want to be sitting next to me at a dinner party when I don’t know anybody. Everybody thinks I’m social and I get shy. This is officially my friend who I want at every party with me when I don’t know anybody else or even when I do know people. His conversation skills are amazing. He knows every piece of pop culture and don’t get him started on Diana Ross. He knows so much about this woman. He’s an author and a producer. He’s the host of a digital talk show called The Happy Hour. He’s the author of the book, That’s What Friends Are For.

Thank you for having me, Erin. I’m excited to be with the girl from Jersey. I’m a guy from Jersey so this is good.

You don’t live too far from here.

Not too far. I’m in Richfield Park, New Jersey. I moved here from Atlanta in ’95 and I lived in Richfield Park since then.

What made you move up here? Jersey is not for everybody.

I was moving here with an offer that came from CNBC to produce Geraldo’s prime time show, Rivera Live. That opportunity got me up here to New York to decide if I wanted to live on the New York side or the New Jersey side. CNBC was in Fort Lee at the time. Richfield Park became the answer for where I moved for the convenience of that gig. I did that gig for two years, but it’s become a great hub for me. I own it now and it’s the place. It’s my home away from home. I sleep in Jersey. I live in the city. I’m flying all over the world.

You set the circus down here now on the East Coast. Either way, New York, New Jersey, we’re happy to have you.

I’m happy to be here.

You worked for Oprah a lot of times and we have a lot of mutual friends so I’ll try to bring you along with everybody.

You won’t do the Eddie Murphy-Arsenio Hall. Do you remember the Arsenio Hall show whenever Edie would be on as a guest? Everything was an inside joke and they would laugh amongst themselves. No one knew what they were talking about, but it was entertaining to watch. We won’t do that.

Let’s get her out of the way, Diana Ross. You love her.

I love her and I’ve loved her from the womb. People love to say, “You came out of the womb singing I’m Coming Out.” It wasn’t out at the time. It was 1970. That song was in 1980. Even from when I was a child, I looked at that sparkling creature that was before me on that little box called television. She spoke to me, not just through her performances, but as this curious kid began to do and learn more. She became this exemplar, this example of how to do life. She came from the Brewster Projects in Detroit, Michigan to become this great, amazing example of lady. We’re celebrating her 75th birthday. She’s still touring in excellent form. I was able to gift the book on my birthday in November.

You’re saying you’ve officially met her?

Yes, I’ve officially met her. I referenced a lot of the special times I’ve had with her in the book, Oprah’s legends ball being one of them. I was the sole interviewer of all of the legends and young-ins at that historic event that Oprah threw in 2005.

I wasn’t invited to that.

I thought I saw you there. Are you sure? Did the invitation get lost in the mail?

I saw her at the supermarket and she’s like, “I still feel like I should have invited you to that ball.”

There were a couple of names not on that list and she was very clear to say, “This is my legends ball so be very clear.” It was a three-day event. The first day was on her property, on the Promised Land in Montecito. The second day was the Bacara resort and spa in Santa Barbara. The third day was back at her place, a gospel brunch. We didn’t know it would turn into an ABC primetime special as my first ABC primetime credit as a field producer. Her vision was that if you talk to them on the first day, don’t talk to them on the second day. We didn’t want to like over talk the guest out, but I spoke to Ms. Ross all three days. I did not care what the rules were. We needed to connect. She’s always been open with me in that way. The opening night of Motown, the musical on Broadway, I’m interviewing her before she sees the show. She’d never seen a show that is featuring a character. Diana Ross talking about the humble beginnings of Motown, the musical and the rise to great success. Ms. Ross at the beginning of the show, she says, “I want to talk to you after to let you know what I think.” I’m like, “Diana Ross wants to talk to me again?”

Do you text her?

I don’t text her.

Could you though?

I can email her.

These social media times would reduce many a legend on any given day. Click To Tweet

You have her private email?

I have her email.

What could we do to get you to text with Diana Ross?

I text her daughters. Rhonda and Tracy are buddies. Rhonda lives here in New York. She and I have a chance to see each other socially. Often I remember Diana’s movie, Mahogany, was playing at the IFC in the village. It’s a big movie. Barry Gordy directed it. It was a classic amongst fans of Diana and black folks because it was like black women at the time weren’t often given the leads and given the opportunity to be desirable, sexy and all those things in the ‘70s. They’re going to do this retrospective. They’re going to do the movie and Rhonda is going to come and speak. I’m spouting about it all over social media so much so that the thing sells out before I get my own ticket. I have to get back to texting. I text Rhonda and I said, “Rhonda, I don’t have a ticket.” I was able to watch Mahogany alongside Rhonda Ross and Bob Silverstein, who’s her father.

It pays to not be so organized when it comes to buying your own tickets.

It works out sometimes.

Do you do that for hotels, airfares and stuff too?

All of the above. Even working for Oprah when she did her final appearance on Season 25. I worked for the show. It’s not like they have to hook me up. I work for the show, but because I was such a big Diana fan and it was the last appearance on the show, they flew me in so that I could be a part. They let Diana greet me coming out of the green room singing I’m Coming Out. She gives me a little moment that everybody in the world got to see. They seated me in the third row when Diana and the family were coming off the stage, the children were coming off the stage to be seated in the audience so they could do another surprise, which was to surprise Diana with Billy Dee Williams. Rhonda sees me with her son, Raif, in her arms and she says, “You made it.” The ladies next to me are like, “You know the Ross family.” It’s been a great love affair considering that this is a woman. Many of these women that I write about in the book are the ones who were my dream girls.

Quickly about the book, where can everybody find this book?

This book is available where all books are sold, Amazon, Barnes & Noble. You can order it, Patrick L. Riley, That’s What Friends Are For: On The Women Who Inspired Me. When I do Volume 2, Erin Saxton, The Girl from Jersey Chapter One. Each chapter has a scrapbook, which are pictures that I’ve gathered from my cell phone or wherever I am and whatever I’m doing. I’ve been in rooms with a lot of these great women. I don’t just talk about the A-listers like Diana and Aretha. I wanted this to be entertainment diary and memoir. I speak about the women who are important to me, but also the women who may not have had as many hits as Diana, but they’re important to the culture. This book is to remind us that these women are an inspiration. These social media times would reduce many a legend on any given day because that’s what you can do in social media, the trolls. I wanted to remind one people how great these women are, but I needed to also put it on the record that I was there because at some point nobody is going to care. I had to put it in a book.

It’s a legacy piece for you. You’re a talk show host.

I’ve learned from the best. I have a great show, The Happy Hour Talk Show.

Let’s talk about it.

I’m one of five professional gay guys including Kendrell Bowman, who’s a Broadway show producer. Mr. David Hand who is a silver fox, a wonderful model in New York City. He is delicious and getting ready for Fashion Week. We’ve got Derrick Veldrine who’s a wonderful committed Harlem guy who does accounting, but he’s into the business. We have Jay Beauchamps, who’s a young Dominican cutie. The five of us get together to talk about any hot topic situation we’ll talk about. We don’t do the gossip that Wendy Williams does, but we talk about relationships. We talk about the idea of LGBTQIA, trans rights and what that looks like. Are you into the pronoun?

I love that you segued into this because I’m down with it, but I need a little quick study. We added a few more letters.

Where we are now is LGBTQIAP+.

Can we go through it? There are nuances, but are they subtle? I feel like you like a woman, you like a man or you like everybody. There are a lot more letters than that.

There are a lot more nuances. There’s gender identity. There’s CIS passing. Now that we’re over the gay thing, we have to explore the uniqueness of what each of these letters represents. We hear it all the time, representation matters. My experience is not going to be the same as experience as my trans-sister, my transwoman friend. I have to know I am not to call her a tranny. That’s not politically correct. You almost don’t know unless you’re educated. The Happy Hour talk show is a little modicum of education. We’re having these uncomfortable conversations, being corrected ourselves in the episodes so that we can help people know that you’re not alone in trying to figure this out. Also so that we can make sure our LGBTQIA brothers and sisters know that we want to know more. We want to get into the nitty-gritty of it so that it is established.

The young people have all these pronouns and the new glossary. They have to let us know that we have to collectively engage in the conversation. We as the old heads have to be interested enough to say, “Will you explain it?” You can explain it before you offend them. We can get so caught up in saying something that’s out of step instead of simply getting the answers. We’re through our show trying to have some of those conversations to kick start people into engaging even our coming out tails. We all have different stories and our families respond in different ways. We’re a diverse panel, black, white, Latina and Latino. It’s a nuance. Latina being feminine, Latino being masculine. It’s this conversation of trying to get into the specificity of it.

Spanish itself, conjugating Spanish is hard when it’s your second language. You put in identities, preferences and conjugate that.

It’s more than a notion and yet in this era, the playing field is leveled. You’ve got your amazing podcast talk show. I’m working The Happy Hour and we’re not waiting on The View or The Talk to book us. We’re talking. It’s up to us to have these conversations so that we can all have a better understanding.

Taking a piece out of The Happy Hour Show. If we were to have a co-worker or have a friend and we’re not sure what to say or what not to say, what advice do you have for everybody so that there’s acknowledgement and there’s respect? There’s love but there’s also, “I don’t know what I’m asking you. I want to know because I don’t want to be ignorant. I don’t want to offend by asking the question.” What advice do you have?

It’s kind curiosity. Any question is a fine question if I earnestly want to understand how to identify you or what distinguishes a transgender woman from a drag queen. You might say that’s obvious, but if it isn’t, can we talk about what that is? Kind curiosity is what anyone should lead with to get the information because it is not all there. It’s new information. I’d speak to a lot of gay-straight alliances in New York City. One wonderful organization is Live Out Loud. It’s an LGBTQIA mentoring scholarship organization. Joan Rivers has been a part of it in the past and a lot of great allies have been a part of this organization, which helps young people who are often persecuted in their own households. It gives them hope, gives them an opportunity to continue to be their great best selves. When I go into the schools, they say, “What’s your program?”

What’s the answer to that?

My original answer was, “He, him, hey,” and they laughed. It should be he, him and there’s a third. All of mine would be aligned masculine, but there’s also in the pronoun, they. There’s a he or a she that may refer to themselves as they. That’s a distinction that is their right to have. They might reference themselves as they, and it’s a distinction that is their right to have. It reminds me of before I came out of the closet.

You’re gay?

I am gay. Didn’t I mention that somewhere? Before I came out, it’s like, “There’s the boyfriend, but I’m not out yet.” Someone says, “Are you dating?” My reference was like, “A friend said that. What did he say?” It’s like I’m too shy to say it. No, they now is a word of power. That has nothing to do with that. These are all the things that we all have to catch up.

How does it shift? This goes to any pop culture. We’ll segue into our bigger conversation, but how do things take root and become it, the, they, popular, trending? How does something in your opinion become from something some girls doing in Jersey to something now that they’re adding another layer or another explanation or a letter onto a very much bigger conversation? How does it groundswell like that?

Think about it that in the ’80s and the ’90s, we were having rich talk show level conversations about gay life, coming out, AIDS. All of that was a part of the conversation. To have opened the door on that has now in these times allowed us to open the door on the fact that core conversation does not apply to everybody. There’s more to it. Even as a black gay man, some of are my white LGBTQIA brethren have handled their coming outs, the ways in which maybe many of their families might have accepted them, there’s a homophobia concern in the black community. It is. I feel sometimes like a pioneer in a way that I reject in some ways because I feel like we as a people should know better. The truth is there are some doors I’m walking through that are explaining compassion to the people in my own life. They’re learning it through me.

That’s shocking to me because the African-American community, as far as not being accepted, had persecution, slavery. Now, we’re now saying what I’m hearing.

Christian pathology and dogma somehow have restricted that tier of compassion that you would think black people would have.

It’s not in their legacy. It’s not in that mindset as far as acceptance. It’s a restart.

It is in the legacy. If you study Africa at the beginnings, gays existed. Culturally it existed, but somewhere along the way, it was a thing to not be happy about. The Lincoln Center wrapped a wonderful play, The Rolling Stone. The Rolling Stone is about the three siblings, one of whom is gay in Uganda in 2010. In 2010 in Uganda, there was a newspaper called The Rolling Stone. The Rolling Stone would put pictures and people who they found out were gay. They would persecute them, shame them and their people would kill them. This was acceptable behavior in 2010.

My son was born in 2005 so he’s five years old. We’re watching SpongeBob. To hear in the other part of the world somebody is dying.

The feelings and the conversation that the play unearths. I interviewed the director, Sahim Ali. I said to him, “I didn’t have to go all the way to Uganda to feel offended by my people,” because it was about this young man trying to be who he was. They could not accept it even though his siblings loved him. The people in the church loved him, but he could not be this thing that The Rolling Stone is writing about. If he was, we had to abandon him. I never felt full abandonment from my people, but they weren’t so great at the beginning.

What made them come around?

I showed them what love looked like on me. I did not back off from appeasing them because of all those years in which I might’ve been told by a family member not to hold the bag that way. Not to talk like that, not to say it like that. I decided to be who I was deliberately, lovingly. I wasn’t forcing anything on them. I’m in a relationship thirteen years with my guy, Ed. He’s a producer as well. I took him home maybe a year and a half into our relationship to Savannah, Georgia, the Bible belts. I didn’t take him to stir things up. I was singing at a cousin’s wedding and she invited me and said, “Bring your special friend.” You understand the diplomacy of it all.

When we walked into the church, I’m singing at the cousin’s wedding, the church choir is chock-full of beautiful women. They’re saying, “Who’s he for?” My cousin tells me this, “Who’s he for?” My man walks in. I walk in they’re like, “Who’s he for?” My cousin says, “They’re for each other. Now drop it.” In action, I have been able to teach them homophobic jokes. I’m wondering what’s going to happen with Eddie Murphy and his Netflix deal because a lot of his hot humor did have a little bit of a homophobic leaning. Now we laughed at the time. I remember as a little boy I would laugh, but I also would internally cringe because I wondered at what point was that level of laughter and shame going to turn on me.

Did you know you were gay?

Internally, I knew. I knew where I lived and who I lived with and I knew where I went to church. To me, I’m internally having the conversation of, “Can I come out? Will I come out? At what point will I come out? Until I come out, is this what it’s going to feel like?” It’s exactly what it felt like. A moment happened and I have a brother, he’s five years older. A brother is still a brother. He’ll bust my chops. What’s the way to bust my chops? Go the homophobic route. He did in a way that could have been another one of those shameful family moments but because of how I have been in teaching them by example, you could hear a pin drop. Not a family member thought it was funny. My brother-in-law said, “That was a slur.” I’m like, “I think so.” Do you get what we’re saying?

I do get it. I like that shift. What did your brother do at that moment?

He apologized a day later. That means you had to get over me being that extra, super sensitive. The next day, he apologized properly. That is what I am allowing for them to slip up from time to time, not too much. Let’s have a loving relationship.

Did your family watch your show?

They do.

A lot of the young people are not even identifying themselves as anything. There's a lot of openness with this new generation. Click To Tweet

That alone is a shift because there are other perspectives that you are not offering that might shift them as well.

They get to understand my experience and there are four other guys that have other unique experiences that are informing who they are and how they are now. They’ve definitely softened. My dad is a retired chief master sergeant from the Air Force. He’s 85 years young, but he’s been amazing. One of my sharings in fact is how the people you think will get it may not. In fact, it was a sibling who said to me with my dad, “He’s out there. You’ve got our father out there researching famous people with gay children.” He’s researching. Newt Gingrich has a daughter. He’s researching these things. My brother thought he was hurting my feelings. I said, “No, you’re telling me that our dad is smart enough and compassionate enough to do the research.” Instead of coming at me outside of my name, which he never did as my siblings did it, he did the work and the research. It’s not like he’s over the moon happy that I’m gay, but he knows who I am and he loves that. I sent daddy and his wife to see Diana Ross when she came to Savannah. He says to me, “She was amazing.” He says, “I see why you and Anthony go all over the world chasing her.” He’s like, “She is an amazing performer.”

What if Diana Ross had a crush on you? Will she pull you back?

I’ve always joked that I’d go to the other side for Diana.

Would you?

I don’t know what I would do. What would I do with her hair? I did have a high school girlfriend. It was one of those things I had to take the steps before I could come out.

Were you like kissing her?

We did it all. She loved me to this day. I went to my man’s high school girlfriend’s wedding. We went to my high school girlfriend’s wedding. As she came down the aisle, her uncle was bringing her down the aisle, she blew me a kiss. My sister says, “Are you sure?” I love her. She’s still a great support. I’m going to be in Atlanta promoting the book. She’s sending me suggestions on where I can come. She’s referenced as a woman who inspired me early on as I found my way.

Let’s talk about other women in Celebrity Ville. I’m a PR person as well as a former TV producer. Your Miley Cyrus’ of the world, your VMA performances, what do you think about when these new stories come out? Miley leaves Liam for a woman. It’s a decent segue into our last conversation. Is that real or real in the moment? Because he’s so delicious.

She’s represented fluidity in that way over these many years even alongside their timeline even. She’s been open. I do think the younger people are open. You speak of the VMAs, they’re in the zeitgeists in the sense that they reflect what is going on now, what we’re accepting. The VMAs at this time was special because in real-time, Miley is addressing her personal issue on the stage in a way that people appreciate. A lot of these young people are not even identifying themselves as anything. They’re not in relationships. We feel like you have to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend. There’s a lot of openness to this new generation.

For Miley to express in her new material what was going on with the break up and all that looked like, that’s right now. Missy Elliot who coincidentally was a young-in at the legends ball is now getting this Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award utilizing the young people that she had in her videos now as adults. Pop culture is trying to catch up with the times in a way. Normani, formerly of Fifth Harmony, I had a chance to interview those girls for the Keke Palmer show. It had a little short-lived life. It ran on BET.

Candi Carter, executive producer of The View was the executive producer of the Keke Palmer Show at the time. She brought me on to go talk to the girls. They were doing a shoot and to see the two of the five now transitioned into being solo artists, they’re becoming the new women who inspire me because they’re taking those steps. When Diana left the Supremes, it destroyed the nation. We also see what the power of her moving on with her solo success was for the culture. I’m seeing the young girls also mimicking some of those moves that the original divas did towards their greatness. We’re beginning to see 2.0 of what these original OGs did.

What are your thoughts on Beyoncé?

I love Beyoncé. I would never say anything negative about her because I don’t want the Beehive on me. What I will say about her I’ve grown to see her evolve. One great story I tell in the book is how and my man, the same Anthony that we’re referencing took me to Manila for my birthday in 2007 to see her because he missed her domestically and this was the B-Day tour. We looked at the dates in Asia and knew the publicists. We worked out Manila as where we would go see her abroad. As we’re doing a meet and greet, we’re having a lovely meet and greet time. This is a little bit before she’s out with Jay Z. That said, she says, “You’ve got a great guy. He brings you over here for your birthday.” I said, “I hear you’ve got a great one too.”

We did our own little personal and Beyoncé moment. She received it. As we were leaving the meet and greet, Anthony says, “Don’t forget to snap for the kids during the show.” That’s a line from one of her songs, Get Me Bodied. I’m like, “Why would he say something corny like that?” She says, “I won’t forget to snap for the kids.” She says, “Where are you sitting?” He tells her where we seated. At the end of the show, she says, “Where are my boys from America?” She comes to that. She says, “This is for you.” She sings me a happy birthday. I’ve seen her many times since, but I underscore her goodness by sharing that anecdote.

How amazing to be in the moment there. As a performer, she’s in the moment. You’re in the moment. I’m in the moment. We try to be but it’s not easy.

I’m saying this could go on forever.

Thank you for being on the show. We’re going to move in now.

You’re a stone’s throw from me. You’re the girl from Jersey. I’m going to be the best girlfriend from Jersey.

We have The Happy Hour talk show. We have That’s What Friends Are For. If people want to get in touch with you, where can they find you immediately?

You can find me on Instagram, @Patrick.Riley and that will lead you to everywhere else and all the other platforms. There’s a great vibrant energy in my social media. I’m sharing nonstop. I’ll be sharing about you a lot in the coming weeks and months. This is good stuff.

It’s great to have you here.

 

Thank you for having me.

I am now in love with you. What letter in my pronoun could that be?

You could be an S for sensation.

I’m going to start promoting symbols now. Thank you for being here. 

Important Links:

• The Happy Hour
• That’s What Friends Are For
• Live Out Loud
• @Patrick.Riley on Instagram

About Patrick Riley

Patrick Riley is best known for his work as a freelance, senior field producer at “The Oprah Winfrey Show” for over 13 years – including ABC network credits on “Oprah’s Legends Ball” and “Building a Dream: The Oprah Winfrey Leadership Academy”. That opportunity provided moments for the Tokyo-born, Savannah, GA-reared Patrick to interview Presidents Barack Obama and Bill Clinton as well as many of his own idols – including Diana Ross, Mary Tyler Moore, Janet Jackson, Beyonce, Dr. Maya Angelou, and many more.

Since OPRAH wrapped in 2011, on-camera and event hosting opportunities have folded prominently into the Morehouse College graduate’s schedule – including return appearances with Daily Blast Live; TV-ONE’s “Life After”; COZI-TV; BET; The Advocate; Wells Fargo; and Arise Entertainment 360. He has received a number of industry nods for his work, including the 2014 Momentum Education’s “Pillar of Empowerment” Award at Momentum Honors in New York City as well as several awards from the National, Atlanta, and New York Associations of Black Journalists, and others.

Patrick’s hardcover book, “That’s What Friends Are For: On the Women Who Inspired Me,” is published by Dorpie Books. NABJ deemed it “Outstanding Literary Work” as the NYC Pride organization awarded him its 2018 Trailblazer Award honor in Harlem at The Schomburg Center of Culture & Research.